Showing posts sorted by relevance for query finda was yellow. Sort by date Show all posts
Showing posts sorted by relevance for query finda was yellow. Sort by date Show all posts

08 April 2015

FINDA WAS GÉL?

Update 27 Nov. 2020: 'Finda's Folk' may originally have referred to the 'yellow' race, but in most later texts the term rather seems to refer to people who share characteristics or morals and behavior (the racial component being less defining) with Finda as described in 'Finda was Yellow' [007/30].

— — — — — —

(posted on forum 25 to 27 March)


A mistranslation by Ottema, copied by Sandbach.

[031/15-032/01] Minno
FÉLO SLACHTA FINDA.S SEND SNOD ENOCH.
MEN HJA SEND GÍRICH. HÁCH.FÁRANDE.
FALSK. VNKUS ÀND MORT.SJOCHTICH.


Ottema p.47:
Velen gelijken op Finda, * zijn schrander genoeg, 
maar zij zijn hebzuchtig, hovaardig, 
valsch, onkuisch en moordzuchtig.

Sandbach p.47:
Many are like Finda. They ** are clever enough, 
but they are too rapacious, haughty, 
false, immoral, and bloodthirsty.

* should be: Vele geslachten (stammen) van Finda...
** should be: Many of Finda's tribes ...

Jensma (2006):
Vele geslachten van Finda zijn slim genoeg,
maar ze zijn gierig, hoogvarend,
vals, onkuis en moordzuchtig.

###

Why Finda's people were not (only) our 'yellow' (Asian) race, but more likely (also) southeast-Mediterranean

The word GÉL (yellow) is used twice in the OLB (see below).

Variety in some modern and old languages:

geel - dutch
gelb - german
giallo - italian
giel - frisian
gult - icelandic
gul - danish, swedish, norwegian
yellow - english

gelo - oldsaxon, oldgerman
geolu, geolo - oldenglish
g(h)elu(w) - olddutch
gulr - oldnorse
helvus - latin

OLB fragments

[007/30] and Sandbach p.15
FINDA. WAS GÉL ÀND HJR HÉR SÁ THA MÀNNA ÉNER HORS.
Finda was yellow, and her hair was like the mane of a horse.

[167/25] and Sandbach p.227
VNDER ALLERLÉJA KÉREN IS.ER ÁK GOLDEN MANK.
ÀK GOLD.GÉLE APLE
HWÉR FON WELKE SÁ SWÉT ALS HÛNING SIND
ÀND WELKE SA WRANG ALS ÉK.

Among the various kinds of corn some is as yellow as gold.
There are also golden[-yellow] apples,
of which some are as sweet as honey
and others as sour as vinegar.


According to the 'Middledutch' Dictionary (Middelnederlandsch Woordenboek) that is about the period c.1250-c.1550, the original meaning was more like our 'blond':
"Yellow, the known colour, but the actual meaning is more that of our blond. 'Gelu haer' is in Middledutch the common word for what we call blond hair; the combination 'gelu blont' was also used."
(Original Dutch text: "Geel, de bekende kleur; doch de eig. bet. is meer nog die van ons blond. Gelu haer is het in 't mnl. gewone woord voor hetgeen wij blond haar noemen; ook vindt men gelu blont bijeengevoegd.")

Dr. Ottema wrote in his introduction to the OLB (1871), translated by Sandbach (1876):
"Irtha bore three daughters — Lyda, Finda, and Frya — the mothers of the three distinct races, black, yellow, and white — Africa, Asia, and Europe."

It is indeed tempting to assume that because Finda is described as "GÉL", Finda's people must be interpreted as what we call the "yellow" (Asian, i.e. Chinese, Japanese, Mongolian etc.) race.

There are however good reasons to reconsider this idea.
It is more likely that - at least in some of the fragments - Egyptians (or similar people from that area) were meant.

The strongest argument is the fragment below, but there is much more to say about this, which I will do later.

[057/13] Tünis & Inka
TÜNIS WILDE THRVCH THJU STRÉTE FON THA MIDDEL.SÉ VMBE TO FÁRANE
FÁR THA RIKA KANING FON ÉGIPTA LANDUM. LIK HI WEL ÉR DÉN HÉDE.
MEN INKA SÉIDE THAT.I SIN NOCHT HÉDE FON AL.ET FINDA.S.FOLK.


Sandbach p.81:
Teunis wished to sail through the straits to the Mediterranean Sea, 
and enter the service of the rich Egyptian king, as he had done before, 
but Inka said he had had enough of all those Finda's people.

###


View PostJan Ott, on 25 March 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:
... the rich Egyptian king [...] all those Finda's people.

Another fragment in which 'Finda's tribes' and the Egyptians are mentioned:

[051/17] about the invasion of eastern Scandinavia ('Skénland') by 'a people from the east' (Finns and Magyars) in ca. 2100 BCE
THAT FOLK NAS NAVT NE WILD LIK FÉLO SLACHTA FINDA.S
MEN É.LIK ANDA ÉGIPTA.LANDAR. HJA HÀVATH PRESTERA LIK THAM.
ÀND NW HJA KÀRKA HÀVE. ÁK BYLDON.

Sandbach p.73
They were not wild people, like most of Finda's race;
but, like the Egyptians, they have priests
and also statues in their churches.


More litterally:
That folk was not wild, like many of Finda's tribes,
but equal to the Égipta-landers. They have priests like them,
and now that they have churches, also statues [of idols].

Note: Jensma added a word between brackets in his translation, stressing the idea that the Magyars were of Finda's stock:
... zoals vele [andere] geslachten van Finda, ...
... like many [other] tribes of Finda, ...

Many other fragments about Finda's people point out that they had priests (and overly powerful kings), very much despised by the peoples of Frya.
I will show these in following posts.


###


View PostJan Ott, on 26 March 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:
... the idea that the Magyars were of Finda's stock

In another fragment, it is suggested that the Finns, who arrived in what is now Finland together with the Magyars, were also of Finda's people:

[045/24] from introduction to the alphabet page
VNDER HIRA TID HETH FINDA AK EN SKRIFT UTFVNDEN.
MEN THAT WÉRE SA HÁGFÁRANDE ÀND FVL MITH FRISLA ÀND KROLUM
THAT THA ÀFTERKVMANDA THÉROF THJU BITJVDNESE RING VRLÉREN HÀVE.
ÀFTERNÉI HÀVON HJA VS SKRIFT LÉRED
BINOMA THA FINNA. THA THYRJAR ÀND THA KRÉKA.LANDAR.

Sandbach p.65
In her time Finda also invented a mode of writing,
but that was so high-flown and full of flourishes
that her descendants have soon lost the meaning of it.
Afterwards they learned our writing—
that is, the Finns, the Thyriers, and the Krekalanders


One could believe that the ancient Finns were somewhat 'Asian', but to suppose the Tyrians (now Libanon) and Greeks were as well, makes no sense. They were more probably east-Mediterranean. Not black, not white, but somewhere in between; what Frya's people might have called GÉL ('yellow' or light brown).


###

Besides the two copyist letters (Hidde and Liko 'Oera Linda'), the most recent part of the OLB is the part about Black Adel a.k.a. Askar.

In this part which is dated ca. 50 BCE, the Finda's people were still considered to be the biggest threat to the peoples of Frya:

[202/27]
WR.ALDA SÉIDE HJU HÉDE HJA THRVCH THONGAR TO HROPA LÉTA
THAT ALLET FRIAS FOLK MOSTON FRJUNDA WERTHA.
LIK SUSTAR ÀND BROTHAR TÁMED.
OWERS SKOLDE FINDAS FOLK KVMA ÀND RA ALLE FON JRTHA VRDILLIGJA.

Sandbach p.243
Wr-alda, she said, had told her by his thunder
that all the Frya's people must become friends,
and united as brothers and sisters,
otherwise Finda's people would come and sweep them off the face of the earth.


[203/09]
FORTH MOTON ALLE VPSTONDA ÀND ET FINDA.S FOLK FON FRIAS ERV DRÍVA.
NILLATH HJA THAT NAVT NE DVA ALSA SKILUN HJA SLÁVONA BENDA VMBE HJARA HALSA KRÉJA.
ALSA SKILUN THA VRLANDASKA HÉRA HJARA BERN MISBRUKA ÀND FYTRA LÉTA
TILTHJU THÀT BLOD SÍGATH INNA JOWRE GRÉVA.

Sandbach p.245
They must all rise up and drive Finda's people out of Frya's inheritance [or: territory].
If you will not do that, you will bring the [get] slave-chains round your necks,
and the foreign chiefs will ill-treat [or: abuse] your children and flog them
till the blood streams into your graves.


We all know what was the biggest threat to northern Europe around the year zero.
It was not Asians but Romans; Mediterranean people.
This is another indication that with 'Finda's people' not Asians (our so-called 'yellow race') was meant.


###

Minno, the sea-king, seer and philosopher who gave laws to the people of Crete, said this about the Finda's tribes and their kings and priests:

[031/28] about their kings
THÉRA. HWAM.HIS GÁST THÀT LESTIGOSTE SY. ÀND THÉRTRVCH STERIK.
THAM.HIS HÔNE KRÉIATH KÉNING. 

ÀND THA ÔRA MOTON ALWENNA AN SIN WELD VNDER.WURPEN WÉSA
Sandbach p.47 (poor translation)
Whoever is the most crafty 
crows over the others, 
and tries to make them submit to him

More litterally:
The one who's mind [or spirit] is most cunning and thus strong,
his 'rooster crows king' [i.e. he will rule] 
and the others must always be submitted to his power.

[033/14]
DÁHWILA WI TO DVANDE SEND EKKORUM TO SKÁDANE
KVMTH.ET NIDIGE FOLK FINDA.S MITH HJARA FALSKA PRESTERUM
JVW HÀWA TO RÁWANDE JVWA TOGHATERA TO SKÀNDANE.
JVWA SÉDA TO VRDVA ÀND TO THA LESTA
KLÀPPATH HJA SLÁVONA.BANDA OM JAHWELIKES FRYA HALS.

Sandbach p.49
while you are injuring each other
the spiteful Finda's people with their false priests come
and attack your ports [rob your possessions], ravish [i.e. rape] your daughters,
corrupt your morals, and at last
throw the bonds of slavery over every freeman's [i.e. 'Frya'] neck.


###

More thoughts from Minno about the people of Finda and their laws:

[031/18]:
POGA BLÉSATH HJARA SELVA VPPA. 
ÀND HJA NE MÜGATH NAWET THÀN KRUPA.
FORSKA HROPATH WÀRK . WÀRK. 

ÀND HJA NE DVATH NAWET AS HIPPA ÀND KLUCHT MÁKJA.
THA ROKA HROPATH SPÁR . SPÁR. 

MEN HJA STÉLON ÀND VRSLYNATH AL WAT VNDER HJARA SNAVELA KVMATH.
LIK ALTHAM IS THÀT FINDAS.FOLK.
HJA BOGATH IMMER OVIR GODA ÉWA.
EK WIL SETMA MÁKJA VMB.ET KWÁD TO WÉRANE.
MEN SELVA NIL NIMMAN THÉR AN BONDEN WÉSA.

Sandbach p.47
The toad blows himself out, 
but he can only crawl.
The frog cries "Work, work;" 

but he can do nothing but hop and make himself ridiculous.
The raven [i.e. rook] cries "Spare, spare;" 

but he steals and wastes everything that he gets into his beak.
Finda's people are just like these.
They say a great deal about making good laws,
and every one wishes to make regulations against misconduct,
but does not wish to submit to them himself.


[040/03]
THACH MIN ÀJN WITHER FARA TO LÉTANDE.
SA WIL.K MITH THESA SKÉDNESA ALLÉNA SÉZA.
THAT WI NAVT MÜGE HÉMA MITH ET FINDAS FOLK FON WÉR THAT ET SY.
HWAND THÀT HJA FVL SEND MITH FALSKA.RENKA.
ÉWA TO FRÉSANE AS HJARA SWETE WINA MITH DÉJANDE FENIN.

Sandbach p.59
Leaving alone, then, my own adventures,
I will conclude this history by saying
that we must not have anything to do with Finda's people, wherever it may be,
because they are full of false tricks,
fully as much to be feared as their sweet wine with deadly poison.


More about the laws of the Finda people (benefitting only the priests and kings, i.e. the upper class), from the introduction to the 'rules/ laws and regulations' (of the Frya people), author unknown:

[040/28]:
THÀT FOLK FINDA.S HETH ÁK SETMA ÀND DOMAR.
MEN THISSA NE SEND NAVT NÉI THA RJUCHT.
MEN ALLÉNA TO BATA THÉRA PRESTERA ÀND FORSTA.
THANA SEND HJARA STÁTA IMMERTHE FVL TISPALT ÀND MORD.

Sandbach p.59
The people of Finda have also their rules and regulations,
but these are not made according to what is just—
only for the advantage of priests and princes
therefore their states are [always] full of disputes and murder.


###

Most interestingly, some properties of the Finda priesthoods are described in the second part of the 'oldest doctrine' (FORM.LÉR):

[100/02]
EMONG FINDA.S FOLK SEND WAN.WÍSA.
THÉR THRVCH HJARA OVER.FINDINGRIKHÉD AL SA ÀRG SEND EWRDEN
THÀT HJA HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA ÀND THA INEWIDA BITJUGA
THÀT HJA THET BESTA DÉL SEND FON WR.ALDA.
THET HJARA GÁST THET BESTE DÉL IS FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST
ÀND THET WR.ALDA ALLÉNA MÉI THÀNKJA THRVCH HELPE HJAR.IS BRYN.

Sandbach p.139
Among Finda's people there are false teachers [i.e. 'vain-wise'],
who, by their over-inventiveness, have become so wicked
that they make themselves and their adherents [i.e. the laymen] believe
that they are the best part of Wr-alda,
that their spirit is the best part of Wr-alda's spirit,
and that Wr-alda can only think by the help of their brains.


[100/21] and Sandbach p.139
MEN FINDAS FOLK IS EN ÀRG FOLK.
HWAND AFSKÉN THA WAN.WÍSA THÉRA.
HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA THÀT HJA DROCHTNE SEND.
SA HÀVON HJA TO FÁRA THA VN.EWIDA FALXA DROCHTNE.ESKÉPEN.
TO KÉTHANDE ALLER WÉIKES THÀT THISSA DROCHTNE WRALDA ESKÉPEN HÀVE.
MITH AL HWAT THÉR INNE IS. ~

Finda's people are a wicked people,
for although they [the 'vain-wise' of them] presumptuously
pretend among themselves that they are gods,
they proclaim the unconsecrated false gods,
and declare everywhere that these idols created the world
and all that therein is—

GÍRIGA DROCHTNE FVL NÍD ÀND TORN.
THAM ÉRATH ÀND THJANATH WILLATH WÉSA. THRVCH THA MÀNNISKA. 

THÉR BLOD ÀND OFFER WILLA ÀND SKÀT ASKJA. ~
greedy idols, full of envy and anger,
who desire to be served and honoured by the people,
and who exact [or: demand] bloody sacrifices and rich offerings;

MEN THI WAN.WISA FALXA MANNA
THAM HJARA SELVA GODIS SKALKA JEFTHA PRESTERA NOMA LÉTA.
BÜRATH ÀND SÁMNATH ÀND GETTHATH ALDAM TOFARA DROCHTNE
THÉRER NAVT NE SEND VMBET SELVA TO BIHALDANDE.

but these presumptuous ['vain-wise'] and false men,
who call themselves God's servants and priests,
receive and collect everything in the name of the idols
that have no real existence, for their own benefit.

ALDAM BIDRÍWATH HJA MITH EN RUM EMOD.
THRVCHDAM HJA HJARA SELVA DROCHTNE WÁNE
THÉR AN NINMAN ANDERT SKELDICH NE SEND.

They do all this with an easy conscience,
as they think themselves gods
not answerable to any one.

SEND THÉR SVME THAM HJARA RENKA FRODA ÀNDET BÁR MAKJA
ALSA WRDON HJA THRVCH HJARA RAKKERA FÀT ÀND VMBIRA LASTER VRBARNAD
ELLA MITH FÉLO STÁTSKA PLÉGUM HJARA FALXA DROCHTNE TO.N ÉRE.
MEN IN TRVTH. ALLÉNA THÉRVMBE THÀT HJA.RA NAVT SKÁDA NE SKOLDE.

If there are some who discover their tricks and expose them,
they hand them over to the executioners to be burnt for their calumnies,
with solemn ceremonies in honour of the false gods;
but really in order to save themselves.


Posted Image


###

A fragment suggesting that to be considered of Finda's blood is more about someones behavior, than about skincolour (or actual descent):

[043/25]
SAHWERSA THÉR ÉNIS IMMAN WÉRE. SÁ ÀRG
THÀT I VS GVNG VRRÉDE BY THA FYAND. 

PÁDA ÀND TO PÁDA WÉS. VMBE VSA FLÍBURGA TO NAKA 
JEFTHA THES NACHTIS THÉRIN TO GLUPA
THAM WÉRE ALLÉNA WROCHT UT FINDA.S BLOD.


Sandbach p.63 (poor translation)
If any man should prove a traitor
and show to our enemies 

the paths leading to our places of refuge, 
or creep into them by night,
he must be the offspring of Finda;


More literally:
If someone once were so evil,
that he would betray us to the enemy,
show (them) paths and access roads that lead to our 'fleeburghs' (hidden strongholds),
or to creep into them by night,
then he were only wrought of Finda's blood.


###

Some other fragments suggest that Finda's land was situated more in the east and that at least some Finda peoples looked more Mongolian (Tartars).

[136/11] Buda a.k.a. Krisen etc
IN.T HIRTE FON FINDA.S LÁND VPPET BERCHTA 
LÉID EN DEL THÉR IS KÉTHEN KASAMÍR.
Sandbach p.185
In the heart of Findasland, upon a mountain, 
lies a plain called Kasamyr (Cashmere)

[157/07] Adel
THA TARTARA IS EN BRUN FINDAS FOLK
Sandbach p.213
The Tartars are a brown tribe of Finda's people

[204/03] Adel
THA TARTARA SEND EN DÉL FON FINDA.S SLACHTE
Sandbach p.245
The Tartars are a branch of Finda's race

But these fragments are relatively recent, so the concept may have changed, or it simply differed between the various authors.

Posted Image


###


View PostJan Ott, on 26 March 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:
Some other fragments suggest that Finda's land was situated more in the east ...

Ljudgért was a Gértman from Punjab, who came to Fryasland with Friso's fleet, ca. 300 BCE, and became friends with Fréthorik Oera Linda.

Posted Image

He wrote about the people of north-west India:

[163/29]:
VNDER THA HINDOS ÀND ÔTHERA UT.A LÔNDUM
SIND WELKA LJUDA MANK THÉR AN STILNISE BÍ MALKÔRUM KVMA.
SE GELÁVATH THET SE VNFORBASTERE BERN FINDA.S SIND.
SE GELÁVATH THET FINDA FONUT.ET HIMMEL.LÀJA BERTA BERN IS.
HVANÁ SE MITH HJARA BERN NÉI THA DELTA JEFTHA LÉGTE TOGEN IS. ~
WELKE VNDER THAM GELÁVATH THET SE MITH HJRA BERN
VPPET SKUM THER HÉLIGE GONGG.À DEL GONGGEN IS.
THÉRVMBE SKOLDE THI RUN.STRÁME HÉLIGE GONGG.À HÉTA.

Sandbach p.221
Among the Hindoos and others out of these countries
there are people who meet together secretly [in silence].
They believe that they are pure [unbasτardised] children of Finda,
and that Finda was born in the Himmellaia mountains,
whence she went with her children to the [delta or] lowlands.
Some of them believe that she, with her children,
floated down upon the foam of the [holy] Ganges,
and that that is the reason why the river is called the Sacred Ganges [holy 'Gongg-à'].

Quote
In Hinduism, the river Ganges is considered sacred and is personified as a goddess known as Ganga. (wiki)

Posted Image

The Ganges (or Ganga) indeed descends from the Himalayas.

Ljudgért (and the other people of Frya's) who had heard about this river goddess tradition may have interpreted it as being about Finda.

The Hindus themselves may never actually  have used that name.

24 September 2013

Horse, mane, rider

This was posted on the UM forum last april
Posted Image

(OLB-word - fragment nr.)

HORS - 1,9,11
STRIDHROS - 4
HORSA  (plur.) - 2,5,10,11,13
HORSUM (plur.) - 6
KLEPPAR [066]

MÀNNA - 1,9

RIDDER - 8,9
RUTAR (plur.?) - 3
HRUTAR (plur.) - 11,12
RIDDERUM (plur.) - 6,7

horse - english (♂ stallion - ♀ mare)
ros, paard - dutch (♂ hengst - ♀ merrie)
pferd - german (♂ hengst - ♀ stute)
hest - danish, norwegian (♂ hingst - ♀ hoppe)
häst - swedish (♂ hingst - ♀ sto)
hestur - icelandic (♂ stóðhestur - ♀ hryssa)

mane - english, swedish, icelandic
manen - dutch
mähne - german
manke - danish, norwegian

rider - english
ruiter, rijder - dutch (ridder = knight)
reiter - german (ritter = knight)
rytter - danish, norwegian (ridder = knight)
ryttare - swedish (riddare = knight)
riddari - icelandic (riddari = knight)

{added 27-1-24: [066] THAHWILA AL HJRA LJUDA STÁK ÀND STIF FON SKRIK STANDON [10] KÉM HJU SKÉNER AS Á TOFORA VP HJRA KLEPPAR TO HROPANDE NÉI KÀLTA MIN.HIS}

1 [007/30]
FINDA. WAS GÉL ÀND HJR HÉR SÁ THA MÀNNA ÉNER HORS
[O-S p.15]
Finda was geel en hare haren gelijk de manen van een paard
Finda was yellow, and her hair was like the mane of a horse

2 [016/24]
THJU MODER ET TEX.LÁND SKIL MÀN JÉVA.
THRJA SJVGUN FLINKA BODON
MITH THRIA TWILLIF RAPPA HORSA.
VPPA ORA BURGUM EK BURCH.FÁM
THRÉ BODON MITH SJVGUN HORSA.
[O-S p.27]
De Moeder te Texland zal men geven
driemaal zeven flinke boden,
met driemaal twaalf rappe paarden.
Op de andere burgten elk burgtmaagd
drie boden met zeven paarden.
The mother at Texland shall have [one shall give]
three times seven active messengers,
and three times twelve speedy horses.
In the other citadels each maiden shall have
three messengers and seven horses.

3 [055/11]
THÁ WODIN KRONED WAS
GVNG.ER VPPA WILDA LOS.
THI WÉRON AL RUTAR
[O-S p.77]
Toen Wodin gekroond was,
ging hij op de wilden los;
zij waren allen ruiters
When Wodin was crowned,
he attacked ['went loose upon'] the savages,
who were all horsemen ['riders']

4 [064/04]
AS ET FOLK NV ALGÁDUR DRUNKEN WÉRE
GVNG HJU BVPPEN VP HJRA STRIDHROS STANDA.
TO LÉNANDE MITH HIRA HOLE TOJENST HJRA SPÉRI.
MORNE.RÁD NE KV NAVT SKÉNER.
[O-S p.89]
Toen het volk nu allen te zamen dronken waren,
ging zij boven op haar strijdros staan
met het hoofd tegen hare speer geleund.
Het morgenrood kon niet schooner wezen.
When they [the people] were all drunk
she mounted [went standing upon] her war-horse,
leaning her head upon her spear.
Sunrise [morning-red] could not be more beautiful.

5 [081/02]
IN STÉDE FON THA OWERA TO BIWÁKANDE
SPANDON HJA HJARA HORSA FOR HJARA TOGUM
ÀND RUNON NÉI SKÉNLAND THÁ
[O-S p.113]
In plaats van de oevers te bewaken,
spanden hij hunne paarden voor hunne sleden,
en reden naar Schoonland.
Instead of watching on the shores,
they put their horses in their sledges
and drove off to Scandinavia [Skénland]. 

6 [094/06]
MEN THAHWILA THÉR ALREK IN NOCHT BÁJADE
WAS VRRÉD LÁND. MITH HORSUM AND RIDDERUM
[O-S p.131]
Maar, terwijl daar iedereen zich in
vreugde [genot] baadde,
was verraad geland met paarden en ruiters
But while every one was intoxicated with pleasure,
treachery had landed with its horses and riders.


7 [094/26]
THÁ THJU LONGE SKÀRE UT SJOCHT WÉRE
KÉMER EN HLOTH MÁGJARA RIDDERUM
LIN.RJUCHT TO RINNANDE VP ADELA.S HÉM

[O-S p.131]
Toen de lange schare uit het gezicht was,
kwam een troep Magyaarsche ruiters
lijnrecht aanrennen op Adelas erf.
When the procession was out of sight,
a troop [lot] of Magyar soldiers [riders]
rushed up [came running 'line-right'] to Adela's house [home].


8 [095/10]
SJUGUN JRTH.FÉT WÉRE HJU LONG
ÀND HJRA GÉRT SÁ FÉLO.
THRÍJA SWIKTE HJA THAM OR HJRA HOLE
ÀND AS ER DEL KÉM
WÉR EN RIDDER GÀRS.FALLICH.

[O-S p.133]
zeven aardvoet was zij lang,
en haar zwaard even zoo lang,
dit zwaaide zij driemaal over haar hoofd
en toen het nederkwam
beet een ridder in het gras [werd een ruiter 'grasvallig'].
She was seven feet high [long; tall],
and her sword was the same length.
She waved it three times over her head,
and each time [as is came down]
a knight bit the earth [a rider were 'grasfalling'].


9 [115/14]
ÉVIN SA THET WILDE HORS SINA MÀNNA SKED.
NÉI THÀT HETH SINA RIDDER GERS.FALLICH MÁKAD HETH.
ÉVIN SÁ SKEDDE JRTHA HJRA WALDA ÀND BERGA.

[O-S p.159]
Even als het wilde ros zijne manen schudt,
nadat het zijn berijder in het gras geworpen [:grasvallig gemaakt] heeft,
even zoo schudde Irtha hare wouden en bergen.
As a wild horse tosses his mane
after he has thrown his rider [made his rider 'grasfalling'],
so Irtha shook her forests [woods] and her mountains.


10 [148/10]
NÉIDAM WY SELVA NÉNE SKÉPA NAVT N.ÉDE.
JÉF IK HJAM FLINGKA HORSA
ÀND FJVWER WÉPENDE RIN.BODON MITH

[O-S p.201]
Nadien wij zelve geene schepen hadden,
gaf ik hun flinke paarden
en vier gewapende renboden mede
As we had no ships,
I gave them active horses
and four armed [run-] couriers


11 [150/25]
HI HÉDE FON FRISO MITH KRÉJEN SJUGON HORSA.
BUTA SIN ÀJN.
TO LÉDEN MITH KESTLIKA SÉKUM.
THRVCH THA SÉ.KÀMPAR RÁWED.
BI JAHWEDER HORS WÉRON TWÉN JONGA SÉ.KÀMPAR
ÀND TWÉN JONGA HRUTAR MITH RIKA KLÁDARUM KLÁTH
ÀND JELD IN HJARA BUDAR.

[O-S p.205]
Hij had van Friso medegekregen zeven paarden,
behalve zijn eigen,
beladen met kostbare zaken
door de zeekampers geroofd.
Bij ieder paard waren twee jonge zeekampers
en twee jonge ruiters met rijke kleederen gekleed,
en met geld in hunne buidels.
Friso gave him to take seven horses,
besides his own,
laden with precious things
stolen by the sea-rovers.
With each horse there were two young sea-rovers
and two young horsemen, clad in rich garments,
and with money in their purses.


12 [157/09]
HJA SIND AL HRUTAR ÀND RÁWAR
[O-S p.213]
Zij zijn allen ruiters en roovers.
They are all horsemen [riders] and robbers.

13 [165/11]
THISA MINSKA SIND WÉRENTLIK ÍRA BONAR.
THÉR AMMER MITH HJARA HORSA VP OVERA FJELDA DWÁLA.
THÉR AMMER JÁGJA ÀND RÁWA
ÀND THÉR HJARA SELVA ALS SALT.ÁTHA
FORHÉRA ANTHA OMHÉMMANDE FORSTA

[O-S p.223]
Deze menschen zijn wezenlijk wilde moordenaren,
die altijd met hunne paarden over de velden dwalen,
die altijd jagen en rooven,
en die zich als soldaten
verhuren aan de omwonende vorsten
These people are really savage murderers,
who always wander about the country on horseback [with their horses]
hunting and robbing,
and hire themselves as soldiers
to the surrounding princes

05 September 2015

Forum #46 (13 apr. - 2 sep. 2015)

Irminsul by Wolfgang Willrich (1897-1948)

Little happened on the forum lately.
The (imo) most significant two post were on 27 august; see below, marked blue.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Posted 13 April 2015 - 04:17 PM
Note.
"Heliand" is usually translated as "Heiland" (saviour), but in Oldfrisian it can also literally mean "giving light": HEL.JÁND,
similar to OLB's HEL.LÉNJA (to lend light).
###

Posted 17 April 2015 - 01:04 PM
View PostThe Puzzler, on 14 April 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:
HEL is really CLEAR, even Sandbach has this word, Nyhellenia lent new and clear counsels.
HEL.LICHT clear light ie; the purest form
So I'm not too sure about your literal translations there..
from poster by Cornelis Koekkoek (1903-1982)
Light or clarity:
HEL.JÁND - "giving clarity"
###

Posted 30 April 2015 - 09:12 AM
View PostThe Puzzler, on 30 April 2015 - 12:31 AM, said:
Its not that it doesn't make sense PT - the word hell/helle for light and clarity is not Frisian. That's what no-one seems to be getting. Find it in the Frisian dictionary.
When interpreting the OLB, one cannot rely on Oldfrisian dictionaries exclusively.
Sometimes Oldgerman, Oldnorse, Olddutch etc. (which are not all that different anyway) come to help to make more sense of it.
Sometimes one can only translate by considering the context.
Whe have had dozens of other examples of this.
###

Posted 30 April 2015 - 11:27 PM
View PostThe Puzzler, on 30 April 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:
... I asked you what your translation of BI HELLE DEI was ... HELLE NACHT
Sandbach is a translation of Ottema's translation, not of the original text.

Like Ottema, I would translate as "heldere dag" en "heldere nacht", still common expressions in Dutch, meaning clear in the sense of cloudless.

Quote
you and Abe and others are seemingly insistent on using Dutch or French borrowed words in many instances, such as this example for one...
I didn't use any French borrowed word.

And Dutch is just a variety of 'new Fryan', like German, Norse, Frisian, etc.
No coincidence that it is spoken in the same area as where the OLB describes as being the Fryan main homelands (Texland, West-Flyland etc.)
 ###

Posted 27 May 2015 - 10:12 AM
The focus has been much on the language of the OLB in general and on individual words and their etymologies.
Also, we have explored archaeological material and other sources about the same area.
And I have translated texts about the OLB from Dutch and German into English.

Now I would like to discuss more the acual content and philosophy of the OLB.

This morning I thought of the first two pages, the copyist letters by (1) Hidde and (2) Liko 'Oera Linda' (Over de Linden).

They both describe a problem and a solution.
1. the information carrier does not last (paper decays in wet climate) ==> keep making copies
2. the information is sensitive and agents of a conflicting, dominant belief system will want to destroy it (Christian monks) ==> hide and protect it carefully

This is an example of how the various texts can be analysed.

The part that follows, with Adela's plea, contains some interesting themes, leading to the conclusion to collect various texts into what became the OLB.

What are these themes and how do they relate to our times?
 ###

Posted 27 July 2015 - 10:15 AM
Much of Fryan culture (and language!) lives forth in various known traditions but all that is explained away as inspiration for the alleged 'fabrication'.
Burghs were already destroyed by enemies between 600 BCE and ca. year 0, as described in OLB, so it's nonsense to even suggest that any building would be left.
Most buildings will have been of wood anyway, and stones may simply have been re-used.
In the 13th century Floris V count of Holland built a castle in the village where I was born Wijdenes, and not a trace of it can be found today. They still have no clue where exactly it was located.
###

Posted 12 August 2015 - 09:44 PM
View PostEll, on 12 August 2015 - 08:00 PM, said:
... if it is the genuine 13th century manuscript, then carbon 14 dating ought to easily verify that age.
Indeed. Yet the archive never had such a test done.
They refuse to even consider the posibility that it is authentic and still have not determined where and when the paper was made.
That should be dead simple with modern techniques.

View PostSSilhouette, on 12 August 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:
Your position then from "paper gate" is that the OLB is real/authentic?
Yes.
###

Posted 20 August 2015 - 07:49 AM
View Postflashman7870, on 20 August 2015 - 04:31 AM, said:
... Ulysseus ... "Oulixeus" ... "ULYSUS"
These are just 3 different spellings of exactly the same name.
They may even have been pronounced the same.
(Texel is pronounced Tessel in the NL)
 ###

23 aug. see blog post Racemixers Banned in OLB

Posted 25 August 2015 - 12:17 PM
View Postflashman7870, on 24 August 2015 - 10:28 PM, said:
Preventing human beings from living amongst you for no reason other than there parentage is precisely racism
The reason was not parentage or skincolor. They would not even take back those of their own blood, after the latter had been culturally corrupted.

But nor the first (the daughters), nor the second (the sons) may come back.
For they would bring foreign morals and habits with them


The 'Fryas' mostly detested slavery, while most other cultures had slaves or masters. That is the main thing they wanted to remain free of.
###

Posted 25 August 2015 - 06:24 PM
View Postflashman7870, on 25 August 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:
The Findas were seen as irredeemably tricksy, were they not?
By some, but not by others.

Minno (Sandbach p.59):
I will conclude this history by saying that we must not have anything to do with Finda's people, wherever it may be, because they are full of false tricks, fully as much to be feared as their sweet wine with deadly poison.

Minerva (p.101):
the carrier must make five thousand revolutions of his Juul before Finda's people will be ripe for liberty.

Apollánja's book (p.155):
The Lydas people and the Findas people will exterminate each other, and we must people the empty countries.

Déla Hellénja (p.191):
But when the priests fancy that they have entirely extinguished the light of Frya and Jessos [Jes-us], then shall all classes of men rise up who have quietly preserved the truth among themselves, and have hidden it from the priests.
They shall be of princely blood of priests, Slavonic [slave peoples-], and Frya's [i.e. free peoples-] blood.
They will make their light visible, so that all men shall see the truth; they shall cry woe to the acts of the princes and the priests.
The princes who love the truth and justice shall separate themselves from the priests; blood shall flow, but from it the people will gather new strength.
Finda's folk shall contribute their industry to the common good, Linda's folk their strength, and we our wisdom.
Then the false priests shall be swept away from the earth.
Wr-alda's spirit shall be invoked everywhere and always; the laws that Wr-alda in the beginning instilled into our consciences shall alone be listened to.
There shall be neither princes, nor masters, nor rulers, except those chosen by the general voice.
Then Frya shall rejoice, and the earth will only bestow her gifts on those who work.
All this shall begin 4000 years after the submersion of Atland, and 1000 years later there shall exist no longer either priest or oppression.

Quote
... your use of the old addage "cultural marxism" which I have only seen on Neo-Nazi boards.
I wonder what you were doing there.
One could even pick up such a term when 'innocently' browsing those boards.
I got familiar with it on Red Ice Radio.
It perfectly describes the globalist transformation into a more easily-controllable monoculture.
###

Posted 26 August 2015 - 08:35 PM
View Postflashman7870, on 26 August 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:
Why wouldn't they think they were better than the others?
... the Fryans were racist. ... it makes them the average human culture.
And you are above this average?
Why wouldn't you think you were ...?
 ###

Posted 27 August 2015 - 09:16 AM

View Postflashman7870, on 27 August 2015 - 04:38 AM, said:
I don't believe at morality is tied to race, no.
Still, you believe your morality is superior to that of "nazis" and "racists", terms heavily emotionally charged by decades of Hollywood (antigermanic) propaganda.

The terms are associated to genocide, to pure evil, similar to the words "witch" or "heathen" a few centuries ago.

Back then it was propaganda by the church against people who did not comply to the mainstream belief or held on to older beliefs.

Result: the burning of these 'heretics' alive with crowds of cheering people who were of "superior morals".

In our time the words "racist" and "nazi" are used against white people who want to preserve their culture and heritage, who don't believe in the globalist agenda (aiming at a one-world government, ruling a monoculture). It is hypocrite, for occupied Palestine is allowed to create a racially slash religiously 'pure' state by genociding the native population and only allowing other 'chosen ones' in.

If an individual like yourself can believe his morals are superior, then so can a group of people, a family, tribe, nation or race.


Quote
Whatever minor internal prejudices I have are... Well minor as compared to the Oera Lind Book.
L.O.L.
You obviously would not be able to see how major they actually are.

###

Posted 27 August 2015 - 09:19 AM

View Postflashman7870, on 27 August 2015 - 04:41 AM, said:
Except the Romans were fine with incorporating brown and swarthy folk of Lyda and Finda.
As long as they could use or control them, to increase their wealth and power.
 ###

Posted 27 August 2015 - 10:05 AM
View PostEll, on 26 August 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:
The Oera Linda book does not describe races. It describes three populations that descended from three different superwomen: Lyda, Finda and Frya, ... These populations were (Indo)-European populations, therefore Caucasian populations.
How do you explain this description of the three mythical mothers (Sandbach p.13-17):
Lyda was black, with hair curled like a lamb's
...
Finda was yellow, and her hair was like the mane of a horse
...
Frya was white like the snow at sunrise, and the blue of her eyes vied with the rainbow.
For more about black/ brown and yellow/ light-brown and the peoples of these colours as described in the OLB, see blogposts:

SWART, BRUN ~ black, swarthy, sordid, brown
FINDA WAS GÉL?
###

Posted 27 August 2015 - 04:36 PM
View PostEll, on 27 August 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:
I was born and grew up in Den Helder, the town where the Oera Linda Book was first revealed to the world.
Nice.
I was born and raised in Westfriesland, in a village close to Enkhuizen, where the OLB was kept until Cornelis got it in 1848. The naming after haircolor is known to me.

You are the first and only as far as I know with this interpretation, but it is far fetched IMO.

Black Adel was indeed named so for his hair colour:

18 [195/01]
THÉRVMBE WIL IK THÀT FORMA VR SWARTE A.DEL SKRIVA.
SWARTE A.DEL WÉRE THENE FJURDE KENING AFTER FRÍSO.

Daarom wil ik ten eerste over Zwarte Adel schrijven.
Zwarte Adel was de vierde koning na Friso.
Therefore I will firstly write about Black Adel.
Black Adel were the fourth king after Friso.


19 [196/06]
MEN JETA SWARTER AS SIN HÉR IS SINE SÉLE FVNDEN
Maar nog zwarter als zijn haar is zijn ziel bevonden.
But yet blacker than his hair, his soul was found.

22 [208/22]
HI NILDE NAVT NE DÁJA THA HJA SKOLDON HJARA SELVA FRIAS BERN HÉTA
LIK RÉINTJA BIBODEN HÉDE.
MEN HI VRJET THÉRBI THATI SELVA SWARTE HÉRA HÉDE.

Hij wilde niet gedogen dat ze zichzelf Friasbern zouden noemen,
zoals Réintja aangeboden had.
Maar hij vergat daarbij dat hij zelf zwarte haren had.
He did not want to allow that they would call themselves Frias-born,
like Réintja had proposed.
But he thereby forgot that he himself had black hair.


But Lyda's Land must be Africa, as is clear from the context. Here's a few fragments but I could give many more:

3 [031/13] Minno
LYDA.S FOLK NE MÉI NÉN ÉWA TO MÁKJANDE NI TO HALDANDE.
HJA SIND TO DVM ÀND WILD THÉR TO.

Lyda's volk kan geen wetten maken noch handhaven,
ze zijn daar te dom en wild voor.
Lyda's folk is not able to make or maintain laws.
They are too dumb and wild for that.


4 [048/18]
INVR LYDJA THÉR SEND THA SWARTA MINNISKA
in Lydja daar zijn de zwarte mensen
in Lydja (there) are the black people

5 [068/26]
HI STEK THUS MITH SINUM FLÁTE NÉI LYDJA. THAT IS. LYDA HIS.LAND.
THÉR WILDON THA SWARTA.MÀNNISKA FÁTA HJAM ÀND ÉTA.

Hij stak dus met zijn vloot (over) naar Lydja, dat is Lyda's land.
Daar wilden de zwarte mensen hen vatten en eten.
He thus crossed with his fleet to Lydja, that is Lyda's land.
There the black people wanted to catch and eat them.


If your interpretation would be right and the Finda's had "yellow" hair, that would mean they are blond. ("Geel" used to mean blond in context of hair.) Consider this:

[057/13] Tünis & Inka
TÜNIS WILDE THRVCH THJU STRÉTE FON THA MIDDEL.SÉ VMBE TO FÁRANE
FÁR THA RIKA KANING FON ÉGIPTA LANDUM. LIK HI WEL ÉR DÉN HÉDE.
MEN INKA SÉIDE THAT.I SIN NOCHT HÉDE FON AL.ET FINDA.S.FOLK.

Sandbach p.81:
Teunis wished to sail through the straits to the Mediterranean Sea,
and enter the service of the rich Egyptian king, as he had done before,
but Inka said he had had enough of all those Finda's people.


[136/11] Buda a.k.a. Krisen etc
IN.T HIRTE FON FINDA.S LÁND VPPET BERCHTA
LÉID EN DEL THÉR IS KÉTHEN KASAMÍR.

Sandbach p.185
In the heart of Findasland, upon a mountain,
lies a plain called Kasamyr (Cashmere)


[157/07] Adel
THA TARTARA IS EN BRUN FINDAS FOLK
Sandbach p.213
The Tartars are a brown tribe of Finda's people

[204/03] Adel
THA TARTARA SEND EN DÉL FON FINDA.S SLACHTE
Sandbach p.245
The Tartars are a branch of Finda's race
###

Posted 02 September 2015 - 07:30 AM
View PostPassing Time, on 01 September 2015 - 11:42 PM, said:
Very interesting.

According to the Skanda Purana, the sage Bhrigu came to Bharuch sitting on a tortoise. The tortoise is known as Kachchha in Sanskrit. Hence the place was named 'Bhrigukachchha'.
Another theory states that the city derived its name from "Bhrigukachchha" (... "Bhrgu's riverbank"), the residence of the great saint Bhrigu Rishi. The city then became known as 'Bharukachch', which was later abridged to Bharuch.


In other words, the etymology is not known. It could easily have been BURCH (borough) originally. A word, very common in OLB.